Sunday, November 22, 2009

Questions? Read the lawsuit yourself!

If you visit the Americans United for Separation of Church and State website, you will find a story about the SOCCCD “prayer” suit.

Upon linking to that story, you’ll find a link to the “complaint,” i.e., the lawsuit. Click on it.

Or just click here.

The text of the lawsuit answers many of your questions.

The suit includes numerous fascinating factoids. E.g., section 63 states:
But in an e-mail exchange with the chancellor and other trustees, Trustee Williams offered to deliver the invocation at that next Opening Session. Wagner responded: “As for the invocation, John, give ‘em hell!” Williams’ rejoinder was to explain that he was searching the internet for a prayer that would be yet more provocative and “liven things up a bit.” The chancellor responded: “Great! Thank you.”
Section 81 is also interesting:
At the August 2009 Chancellor’s Opening Session, the Board and the chancellor continued to stir the pot, injecting even more state-sponsored religion into the event. Trustee Wagner invited the assembled faculty and staff to stand for an invocation “[i]n recognition of this country’s rich religious heritage.” Trustee Williams then offered this extended prologue:
Before the invocation, I thought I’d tell a little Biblical story. Today’s story is about Jonah. In grade school one day, a little girl spoke to her teacher about Jonah and how he was swallowed by a whale. The teacher said it was physically impossible for a whale to swallow a human because even though they’re a large mammal they have very small throats. The little girl said, “But how can that be? Jonah was swallowed by a whale, and the Bible says so.” Again the teacher said it’s physically impossible for a whale to swallow a human. Undaunted, the little girl said, “When I get to heaven, I will ask Jonah.” To this the teacher replied, “What if Jonah has gone to hell?” The little girl replied, “Then you can ask him.” Please join me in the invocation now.
The prayer followed.
Recent media appearances by AUSCS Exec. Director Barry Lynn




COMMENTS:

Anonymous said...
I recommend perusing the lawsuit - it makes for an excellent Sunday reading. 

Thanks for doing this. It needs to be done.
12:57 PM

Anonymous said...
Damn, what a bunch of assholes. Give 'em hell!
2:58 PM

Anonymous said...
"It is very dangerous to protect separation of church and state . . . ." HUH?
5:28 PM

Anonymous said...
send all demonic candy to me at . . .
5:37 PM

Anonymous said...
It look like the District is just extending the Bush "No children left behind" doctrine to "No Republican lawyers left behind". Some pigs *are* more equal at the trough of public money.
10:16 PM, November 22, 2009

Anonymous said...
The smug arrogant disdain displayed by the trustees is awful.
8:31 AM, November 23

Anonymous said...
At Saddleback, students who receive scholarships are told that those monies may be forfeited if they don't attend the ceremony (where they will be prayed over by the likes of Fuentes and Wagner).

I am curious whether IVC students receive the same message (threat) - anyone with info about this?
9:11 AM

Anonymous said...
I read the lawsuit - it's worse than I thought. I hope you prevail.
10:25 AM

Anonymous said...
Faculty should think about this next time they drink friendly beers with Don Wagner at Tijuana's - he's not what he appears to be.

Read through the lawsuit. Watch the videos Roy posted. See what we're up against. It's ugly and hateful.
11:33 AM,

Anonymous said...
Who goes out for drinks with DON WAGNER?
12:56 PM

Anonymous said...
Who could go out with Don Wagner and NOT drink?
2:01 PM

Anonymous said...
I'll drink to that.
2:16 PM

Anonymous said...
I just think the people who pal around with him should know about the forces Wagner has aligned himself with - they're a pretty bad bunch. He's not a nice guy, not even close. He's using everyone he can to get what he wants.
2:19 PM

Anonymous said...
Those people who toss back friendly pitchers with Don should sober up and see through his rather transparent motivations - HE IS USING YOU PEOPLE. HE IS MAKING YOU THINK HE IS REASONABLE AND ON YOUR SIDE - AND HE IS NOT. THE ONLY SIDE DON IS ON IS HIS OWN. ARE YOU THAT CHEAP?
7:49 PM

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

I recommend perusing the lawsuit - it makes for an excellent Sunday reading.

Thanks for doing this. It needs to be done.

Anonymous said...

Damn, what a bunch of assholes. Give 'em hell!

Anonymous said...

"It is very dangerous to protect separation of church and state . . . ." HUH?

Anonymous said...

send all demonic candy to me at . . .

Anonymous said...

It look like the District is just extending the Bush "No children left behind" doctrine to "No Republican lawyers left behind". Some pigs *are* more equal at the trough of public money.

Anonymous said...

The smug arrogant disdain displayed by the trustees is awful.

Anonymous said...

At Saddleback, students who receive scholarships are told that those monies may be forfeited if they don't attend the ceremony (where they will be prayed over by the likes of Fuentes and Wagner).

I am curious whether IVC students receive the same message (threat) - anyone with info about this?

Anonymous said...

I read the lawsuit - it's worse than I thought. I hope you prevail.

Anonymous said...

Faculty should think about this next time they drink friendly beers with Don Wagner at Tijuana's - he's not what he appears to be.

Read through the lawsuit. Watch the videos Roy posted. See what we're up against. It's ugly and hateful.

Anonymous said...

Who goes out for drinks with DON WAGNER?

Anonymous said...

Who could go out with Don Wagner and NOT drink?

Anonymous said...

I'll drink to that.

Anonymous said...

I just think the people who pal around with him should know about the forces Wagner has aligned himself with - they're a pretty bad bunch. He's not a nice guy, not even close. He's using everyone he can to get what he wants.

Anonymous said...

Those people who toss back friendly pitchers with Don should sober up and see through his rather transparent motivations - HE IS USING YOU PEOPLE. HE IS MAKING YOU THINK HE IS REASONABLE AND ON YOUR SIDE - AND HE IS NOT. THE ONLY SIDE DON IS ON IS HIS OWN. ARE YOU THAT CHEAP?

Roy's obituary in LA Times and Register: "we were lucky to have you while we did"

  This ran in the Sunday December 24, 2023 edition of the Los Angeles Times and the Orange County Register : July 14, 1955 - November 20, 2...