Blast from the Past: Sucker Punch

It's that time of the semester, after all.

Thursday, November 13, 2008
All in a Day's Work: Sucker Punch
by Rebel Girl

sucker punch : to punch (a person) suddenly without warning and often without apparent provocation

REBEL GIRL has had a good semester thus far, inspired by new texts and new students. She feels challenged and so do her students. It makes for a lively classroom.

At this point in the semester, students are making the necessary progress, some more than others. There are always those who excelled from the beginning and those who have failed to do so. Then there are those who are surprised by their own ability to progress – there's something special about that bunch. In the beginning, Rebel Girl worried they would drop even though she saw their potential, even though they may have failed the first paper. Stay, she counseled, I know you can do it if you manage your time and focus. They stayed –and now, well, many of them are doing more than passing; some are on their ways to earning B's. They discuss writing and critical thinking with an awareness that they admit they lacked 10 weeks ago. When asked, they say, somewhat shyly that they can see their own progress, notice the difference.

Huzzah.

About this time, Rebel Girl queries them about their future classes. Who's taking Writing 2 next semester, she asks. Hands rise. Excellent. She advises them on Writing 180 opportunities, the reading classes and reminds them not to overload themselves.

So yesterday, in consultation with one of those students who is making her own surprised way to a B, Rebel Girl asks, "What are your plans for the Spring?"

"Oh, I'm taking writing," the student says, "but at another college."

"Why?"

"Well, I heard it's easier."

Rebel Girl goes into her standard patter on this subject: "You don't need easy. You don't want easy. You want to be prepared for the university where things are not easy and besides, you're doing WELL. Look at this paper." They stare at the 5 page rhetorical analysis of a poem by Pulitzer Prize winner Robert Hass.

The student is now embarrassed.

"Is this what your friends told you?" Rebel Girl asks.

"Yes," the student says, "but my counselor told me to do it too." She says the word "counselor" with a certain defensive pride.

"Your counselor here? At this college?" Rebel Girl's voice has gone up an octave at this point.

The student nods. She seems uncomfortable so Rebel Girl lets it go. Besides, she knows when she has lost. This student is a fairly reliable witness. She works on the campus. She will, next semester, take all her classes here except writing. Writing she will take at another college. This on the advice of her academic counselor here, at this college.

Sigh. Big sigh.

Rebel Girl might dismiss this if this was the first time she heard this story. But it isn't.

Counselors are very smart

There's ways to read this story.

One way is that the counselor wants to "help" the student achieve her academic goals and thinks an easy A is the way to do it. That version, of course, insults the smart student, the student that Reb has worked hard to teach the semester. Perhaps the counselor thinks the student isn't as capable as Reb thinks she is.

Maybe the counselor thinks Reb and her colleagues have standards in their writing courses that are higher than necessary, hence the suggestion to move on to another institution where the standards are, uh, different. Reb has certainly heard that one before.

Maybe the counselor wanted to ease up crowded classrooms on campus here on campus. After all, we certainly have seen a rise in enrollment so maybe this is part of some kind of enrollment management strategy.

Maybe the student's narrative isn't as reliable as Reb thinks it is and no counselor ever suggested anything of the sort because he or she would recognize how it undermines our educational mission and so poorly serves our students.

Maybe.

What do you think?

27 comments:

Anonymous said...
I would doubt the student's version at this time without something much more tangible--it sounds fishy right now.

Anonymous said...
I do think that there are individuals who counsel some students to take writing classes elsewhere -

Anonymous said...
You english teachers think too much of yourselves and your classes - that's why they go somewhere else. Who wants to put up with you?

Anonymous said...
It could be that the student is covering up her own poor decision by placing some blame on the counselor and is lying to Reb (we DO know that SOME students lie) - but all the Reb has to do is ask the student who her counselor is and then go and inquire. It would make for a fine follow-up story.

I can't imagine our counselors advising students to go elsewhere, even for one class - I mean that's terrible.

13 Stoploss said...
9:50 - that's the point. no one anymore is willing to work or earn something, and instead expect to have everything handed to them. If these teachers didn't have standards, then they might as well all be replaced with trained monkeys.

Anonymous said...
I agree with 9:59. I can't imagine one of our counselors doing that - I think maybe Reb fell for the student's "story" a little too hard.

Which college is she going to anyway where the "A's" in writing are easy? There's your follow-up story, Reb.

Anonymous said...
No IVC counselor would do that.

Rebel Girl has just had a hard day.

Counselor Deanna Troi

Anonymous said...
Rebel Girl has stumbled upon part of the college's enrollemnt management plan! Direct students elsewhere!

Evidence of this plan can also be seen in the failure to plan for and construct classroom buildings! Hence the need to direct students elsewhere!

Tricky!

Anonymous said...
I think if a student is having trouble with his/hers GPA the Federal Government should bail them out.

Anonymous said...
Reb is correct and the student probably did not lie. IVC Counselors have actually said in my presence that they advise students to take writing at Saddleback or to take assessment tests at Saddleback or OCC because they're "easier."

Unfortunately, the evidence suggests that transferring IVC students who complete writing in our program may outperform Saddleback students who transfer to the same institutions.

Reb does have a reason to feel suckerpunched by colleagues who are not thinking of the larger picture. Sorry to have to confirm her tale with my own experience.

Bohrstein said...
It is very well possible it is a lie, but there ARE counselors that do this exact thing. I've had it recommended to me for Physics/Math in particular (But, I never listen to my counselors).

However, I agree with 13 Stoploss, there are students who don't want to work for it. They want the easy grade, and they want out. You are fighting a losing battle with laziness, not to mention alternate interests.

For example, I have no interest in Economics and I have to take a class in Economics. OK, I say, bring on the easiest class so I can focus on my major.

But, I have found that easy is always boring.

Anonymous said...
Harder does not necessarily equate with quality. Besides, the student may not have the same passion for writing as Reb does and simply wants to achieve the highest grade in return for the lowest level of effort. Who know what the real motivation is.

Anonymous said...
A student that I mentor told me that his counselor said that there is an easier class at IVC than at SC, and vice versa, depending on the subject. I don't think he was encouraged to take the class he wanted to at IVC, but he was certainly informed of the option, which is probably just as bad. By the way, this student has absolutely no reason to lie to me. 

Counseling can be fun

Anonymous said...
I've read the student's paper on the Hass poem, and it is an insightful essay on the wars of Palo Alto. But there is a long-standing tradition among some counselors at IVC who relish their status as insiders whispering foolish advice to students. I know this from years of student stories. And sadly, writing isn't the only class students are warned away from.

Anonymous said...
I too have had students tell me that they were going "south" to take writing 2. I have been told that there are some instructors down at Saddleback that are much easier than the instructors here at IVC.

Yes, everyone wants the best GPA possible but when it comes to writing - you need the best experience you can get. You will write for the rest of your life.

Lisa, try not take it personally. You are a wonderful teacher, coworker, friend, mom, etc.

Anonymous said...
"You want to be prepared for the university where things are not easy . . . ."

This is an assumption all of us (including me) often make, but I don't know whether it's accurate.

I'd like to know how much and what kind of writing is required in upper-division courses at our neighboring CSU and UC campuses. I'd like to know what standards students are held to.

And data is not the plural of ancedote.

--100 miles down the road

Anonymous said...
Whatever the "university" may or may not require I am sure it's more than the simplistic paragraph and plaigiarism strategies taught at nearby institutions that primarily serve the interests of the instructors who simply don't want to work that hard.

Anonymous said...
It's one thing if a counselor suggests a program or class at another college because that institution might be better (I'm thinking of some of our programs that are udner-funded or have thin course offerings), but to direct a student to another institution because it's easier seems indefensible.

I am so happy that we're all working together to deliver the best education to our students!

Anonymous said...
Don't studies show that basic competency in writing furthers the chances of students' eventual success in their chosen fields? I think it's related not only to retention but also to degree completion rates.

Anonymous said...
There are so many English 1B ( = Writing 2) instructors here at Saddleback that anyone issuing advice to come south for a higher grade or easier time had better make sure what instructor the student gets.

I wonder whether her counselor is a "virtual" counselor. Have we all checked out our stats on pick-a-prof? If what you're shopping for is an "A" that can be earned by breathing regularly, it's definitely a site you want to visit.

IVC doesn't have any WR 2 data yet; someone has been loading Saddleback data for a few years now. I did an In-Service study on grade distributions in UC-transferable courses to check out a few hypotheses/myths, and will do another in January, if anyone's interested.

Counseling is substantial

alannah said...
Dear Bohrstein:

I've had students tell me they were advised to go north for math.

I do think some counselors habitually underestimate students, however.

Anonymous said...
Alannah:
We're interested. --RB

Anonymous said...
For the record, Rebel Girl did not identify the institution the student was directed to ---

Anonymous said...
Yikes.
Does the dean of counseling up there know about this?

Robbi said...
Should we meet with the counselors? I think so. Let's discuss and clear this up!

Elva said...
I've had the counselors at IVC give me some really bad advice. One piece of their brilliant work resulted in my now having to take 3 extra classes, and being barred from upper division enrollment in my major because i hadn't fulfilled the lower div requirements at IVC. I also left IVC with about 85 transferrable units because they couldn't decide what it was exactly that I needed before they would sign my IGETC verification. I can't tell you if the student is lying, but I can tell you some of the counselors at IVC, well, I really don't know what they get paid for.

Anonymous said...
my counselor told me i should take an easier class at compton college

COMMENTS, 2011:

Anonymous said...
I still can't imagine any IVC counselor giving such advice unless perhaps standards were so low in a particular program that the student wouldn't be getting the training they needed for success later on.

We know that['s] not true for our writing classes - and we know that students sorely need solid independent writing skills for success in other classes.

I know my students do. A main cause of failure [is] their inability to communciate clearly in standard written English on their tests and papers. ~ 7:35 AM, April 28, 2011

Anonymous said...
Didn't ... this get resolved? I thought the Office of Instuction issued some directive about the problem with directing students elsewhere because it undermined the mission of the college at a critical time[?] ~ 8:30 AM, April 28, 2011

Anonymous said...
Would it not be appropriate for Rebel Girl to contact the counselor and discuss how this student would not be best served by taking an "easier" class? ~ 9:54 AM, April 28, 2011

Anonymous said...
Haven't counselors evolved on this issue? I have heard that they have stopped denying that they advise students to go elsewhere for an easier version of a course or assessment. They now justify this advice by saying that they offer students "options." ~ 11:07 AM, April 28, 2011

Counseling: always on the cutting edge

Reasoning with Birthers — Mission: impossible

Befluffed Republican

     This morning, a friend noted that President Obama had just then released his long-form birth certificate.
     “Do you suppose that’ll put an end to it?” he asked.
     “Nope,” I said.
     Earlier this afternoon, Matt Coker reported that Birthers are already screaming “fraud.”
     That’s what OC’s Orly Taitz is saying. Why? Cuz the birth certificate identifies Obama’s father’s race as “African.”

     Oh.
     In Taitz World, "African" is not a race. "Negro" is a race. How come the certificate doesn't say "negro," hmmmm?
     Evidently, the thesis that Prez Obama wasn't born in the U.S. is unfalsifiable. Nothing that is produced can be allowed to count against it.
     Among intelligent people, that means that it's bullshit.

The April board meeting: retirement incentive OK'd; ATEP chapel doomed; prayer resolution adopted

     Well, here I am in the Ronnie Reagan Room once again for the meeting of the SOCCCD board of trustees. (UPDATE: see (i) Tere's Board Meeting Highlights; (ii) Streaming Video)
     What’s on tap this month?
      —Retirement incentives for one. Here’s item 6.22:

     Also, tonight, the board is set to pass a resolution (item 6.11) as per the settlement of “Westphal v. Wagner” (ratified by trustees on March 31).
     The board is liable to approve a recommendation (6.15) to demolish the WWII era chapel on the district’s ATEP property—68 acres of the former Helicopter Air Station in Tustin. Barbarians!

 * * * * *

     While we're waiting: earlier today, members of the district community received a survey tool to evaluate the board of trustees. I checked it out. It includes such remarks as:

The board understands its policy role and differentiates its role from those of the CEO and college staff.

     We're supposed to indicate the degree to which we agree with that statement. Since the board of, say, six months ago and the board of, say, six minutes ago are quite distinct (especially re the above remark), it is by no means clear how one can meaningfully respond. Which board are you askin' about?

     The good news: Those who take the survey are first asked to indicate how many meetings they have attended in the last year. That's good, I guess. That means they've gotta take my answers seriously. (Right.)

 * * * * *

6:53 — For a while there, I (and other IVCers) couldn't use the wi-fi but some nice Saddleback (district?) tech guy got me on with his code or something. Thanks dude!
     The trustees are now arriving: Prendergast, Lang, Meldau, Padberg—even Milchiker! Haven't seen Tom Fuentes yet. I do believe that TJ (Prendergast) is growing a beard. At any rate, he appears more simian than usual. —Gosh, I do believe that Dave Lang, too, has some serious 5 o'clock shadow. Strictly Nixonian. What's it mean?
7:01 — They're almost ready to start, but still no Fuentes. No Jay.

Fitzsimons

7:03 — The meeting (open session) begins.
Actions taken in closed session
   5/0 vote -- authorized ... Debra Fitzsimons offered employment (Update, 4/25: "Dr. Debra L. Fitzsimons has been appointed as Vice Chancellor, Business Services.")
   Lang gives invocation (Our great country....)

IVC Speech & Debate Team

   Resolutions: (1) Eve Shieh, student trustee (2) Anita Bandekar (3) Jamie Smith (4) Tasha Trankiem [popular gal!] (5) Irvine Valley College Speech & Debate Team
No public comments
   7:25 -- BOARD REPORTS: Meldau...Milchiker...Prendergast: wants a "I survived the Tornado" at Life Sciences groundbreaking ceremony T-shirt...Padberg...Lang.....
   CHANCELLOR'S REPORT: ...last meeting before commencement...will be moving forward tonight with ATEP--tonight, contracts at ATEP. Ground leases with other organizations to pay for future building; will get some direction; what to do with the chapel....
Board requests for reports...none
   Discussion item: 4.1 "Humanitarian efforts for Japan" at the two colleges

     Fumiko Ishi comes up. Japanese Club at IVC. She introduces some members: Esther S, Yoshee... (club has 30 or 40 members) ~ "Love for Japan" slide show. Nice logo. Shows pictures of devastation. Many children left without parents. People exhausted in shelters.
     T shirt sales. Creating a blog. Selling wristbands. $3000 in checks; 6K in something else.... Will show a movie: Gaia Symphony #6. Beautiful photography ~ ivcjapan11@gmail.com 
     Next: Saddleback College effort: Rachel, Prez of International Club w/ Student Government Prez. (I had a hard time reading their slide.) Talked about list of organizations "you guys" can donate to. Collected $1,627... went to Red Cross Japan. No doubt there was more, but I got distracted.
     Padberg thanks both groups. Milchiker yammers for a while. "College with a heart"--description of original college in 1967.
     Advancing items 6.22 (pulling 6.23 - classified employee layoff)
Retirement incentive program. Motion to approve. Unanimous (two absent)
Approve consent calendar: Unanimous


Action items:
6.1 approved.
6.2 approved.
6.3 approved.
6.4 approved. Lang: minimum commission amt. Cafeteria operations agreement
6.5 approved.
   8:00
6.6 Life Sciences Bldg/IVC. Bid, Edge Development. 11 million. Approved unanimously
6.7 American Geotechnical, Utt Learning Resources. Approved unanimously
6.8 Parking bail increase ($3). Unanimous approval.
6.9 ATEP. drainage ditch, maintenance and repair. $25k Approved unanimously
6.10 Audit committee — 3 trustees. Passes.

A day without Fuentes is
like a day with sunshine

6.11 - Invocations at District and College Events Resolution 
Chancellor recommends adoption. Lang moves approval. Meldau seconds. No questions or comments. Roll call vote: All vote in favor. (See resolution here.)
6.12 approved
6.13 selection criteria, user selection, ATEP. Approved
6.14 Education selection criteria, ATEP. Have had many discussions about which institutions to partner with. Profit? Religiously affiliated? Lang moves approval. Unanimous.
6.15 Demolition of Chapel at ATEP (WWII chapel).
    Chancellor recommendation to demolish. Chancellor: pesky problem not resolved.
     It will be in the middle of the property we want to develop. Must make a decision. Move it? Where? $1.7 million to bring to service use (if not moved). Demo the building.
     Meldau: speaking as ex-military officer, it has little historical significance. The money it would take to make it viable would be too much. Other memorials are being planned in the area. Appreciate that some are trying to honor the military. Perhaps there are other ways. Scholarships?
     Prendergast: moves to approve. Lang seconds. Padberg: appreciates Meldau's comments. Recognize the economics of this. Do feel that we should at least save this chapel. Will vote against this item (though has no doubt it will pass).
     4 yes, 1 no vote. Passes. (See WWII military chapel to be demolished)

Doomed WWII chapel:
"little historical significance"

6.16 passes
6.17 passes
6.18 passes
6.19 Authorization to seek proposals for lease/leaseback services -- Lang refers to those (not in attendance [Fuentes]) who had issues with this. Lang moves for approval. Prendergast asked if anyone in the community has come forward with concerns. No. Passes unanimously.
6.21 personnel actions - carries unanimously
6.22 classified personnel actions - carries unanimously (e1a pulled)
6.24 - CSEA public hearing - initial proposal, contract....
7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, 7.6, 7.7, .... no comments
Written reports:
Burnett: thanks Eve Schieh. Blah blah blah - hopes for better health for Jay and Fuentes
Roquemore: blah blah blah - Life Sciences groundbreaking "challenged by the weather" - water spout did remove roofs of nearby buildings many years ago (I saw it!)....
Peebles: thanks trustees for further direction, ATEP.
Saddleback College Academic Senate: see Phantom of the Opera....
IVC Ac. Senate President: finished our lecture series; planning for next year....
   8:38
Faculty Association (union): tonight you approved program that will allow 50 faculty to retire. Some founding members of IVC. Urges the board to be aware of opportunity to hire the best faculty to replace retirees....

“Traditional values” centers at Texas colleges? UC Riverside Chancellor an "Undercover Boss"

Christian

Equal Time for 'Traditional Values' (Inside Higher Ed)

     The Texas House of Representatives has passed a budget bill that would require any public college with a student center on "alternative" sexuality to provide equal funding to create new centers to promote "traditional values."
     While the Senate has yet to adopt a version of the budget bill, the inclusion of the measure in the overall budget bill and the dominance of social conservatives in Texas politics means that the measure could well be enacted. The House vote in favor of the amendment on the campus sexuality centers was 110-24.
     Many Texas public colleges – as is the case at many colleges elsewhere – have centers within student affairs departments that serve gay and lesbian students. These centers sponsor programming, refer students who need counseling or support groups, and serve as advocates for gay and lesbian students on their campuses.
     Representative Wayne Christian, a Republican, proposed the amendment, which would apply to any public colleges with a center "for students focused on gay, lesbian, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, transsexual, transgender, gender questioning, or other gender identity issues." According to The Dallas Morning News, lawmakers "cracked jokes and guffawed" during debate, with one representative asking Christian what "pansexual" means. Christian urged the lawmaker to visit the centers at the University of Texas at Austin and Texas A&M University to find out.
. . .
     Lowell Kane, program coordinator for the gay center at Texas A&M, said that he could not comment on the state legislation. But he said it was hard for him to accept the idea that gay students somehow have it better than their straight counterparts because of the center at Texas A&M or elsewhere. He noted that in various surveys of gay students about how welcoming the university is, Texas A&M does not do well.
. . .
     Noting the suicide last year of Tyler Clementi, a student at Rutgers University, Kane said, "I have never heard of any student who took their life because their college roommate outed them as being a heterosexual student."
     And turning to comments from students at Texas A&M, he added, "I have never had a student come up and complain that someone comes up and out of the blue calls them a 'hetero' and slapped them, but that happens to my students, who are called 'dyke' and 'fag.'"

White

Riverside Chancellor Goes 'Undercover' for Reality Show (Chronicle of Higher Education)

     For several days last month, an earringed, mustachioed employee named Pete Weston did a range of jobs (with mixed success) at the University of California at Riverside. Only weeks later did campus employees find out that Weston had actually been Chancellor Timothy P. White, who on May 1 will become the first higher education leader to appear on CBS's "Undercover Boss," which puts corporate (and now campus) chief executive officers in disguise to see how their organizations work from the ground up. White said he learned much about the campus and was "moved and changed as a person" by participating in the hugely popular, if critically unacclaimed, show and seeing the "level of dedication of our students, staff and faculty."

WWII Tustin military chapel to be demolished

     Item 6.15 of the South Orange County Community College District board of trustees meeting Monday night is "Demolition of Chapel at ATEP site." 

     The agenda is available HERE (see blue box at right of opening page).

     From the agenda:

click on graphic to enlarge

I took these pictures of the chapel in its present condition just a few years ago

It's still a beautiful spot. Love the trees

• Tustin Preservation Conservancy
• Tustin gives OK to raze blimp hangar (LA Times)

Commercial filmed inside Tustin blimp hangar:

Trustees who miss meetings are paid anyway; Rainn Wilson's local "Soul Pancake" gig

Trustee Tom "fiscal conservative" Fuentes to be paid for a meeting he missed

As per usual, a trustee who missed a meeting of the board will be paid anyway. Evidently, it was determined that Mr. Fuentes missed the meeting in question owing to a "hardship." I do believe that the meeting he missed concerned the settlement of the prayer lawsuit ("Westphal v. Wagner"). I suspect that the hardship was that he was too pissed off to attend. But I dunno. (Agenda available HERE.)

Deeper in the document, we find these criteria:

Sounds good, I guess. But I bet Fuentes will carp about 6 and maybe even 4. Noncompetition! How unAmerican!

I suppose some will be pleased about this item:

     Item 7.1 is an information (i.e., non-action) item about coming guest speakers at Saddleback College, including "Rainn Wilson." Do you suppose it's the Rainn Wilson of "The Office"? Guess so.

Evidently, Mr. Wilson created the Soul Pancake website

Rabbits, chimps

Long Beach City College Gets a Grip on Its Bunny Surplus (Chronicle of Higher Education)

     Long Beach City College has turned a corner in a yearlong effort to deal with a soaring rabbit population, thanks to what the Press-Telegram, a local newspaper, described as an aggressive spay-and-neuter campaign. In March 2010, the two-year institution in Southern California had on its campus more than 300 bunnies, many of them abandoned by pet owners who had decided it was too much work to care for the animals. And the population was only growing since the former pets were multiplying like, well, you know what. Today, the newspaper reported, the campus’s rabbit census stands at 70. Donna Prindle, head of the college’s Rabbit Population Management Task Force, said 170 had been placed with new owners. Most of the others have been released back into the wild.

Obama chimp email leads to home protest (OC Reg)

     "The people united could never be divided."
     Chants of these words Saturday pierced the stillness and quietude of the tree-lined street containing the home of Marilyn Davenport, a governing member of the Orange County GOP's Central Committee.
     Davenport has been under fire for sending out an email depicting President Barack Obama and his parents as chimpanzees.
     On Saturday morning, a group of about 25 people representing a coalition of African American groups, held a prayer vigil outside Davenport's home and demanded that she resign from the committee….