[Many issues arose during the May 1997 board meeting. The transcripts below concern only: (1) the announcement of the IVC Academic Senate vote of “no confidence” in the board, (2) Trustee Frogue’s remark about “liars” in the room; (3) Trustee Frogue’s response to the announcement of the results of the vote of “no confidence.”
Please note the blatant ad hominem employed by Trustee John Williams against IVC Academic Senate President Kate Clark.]
May 19, 1997
Meeting of the SOCCCD Board of Trustees
[IVC Academic Senate President Kate Clark's statement during the public comments portion of the meeting--and her subsequent brief exchange with Trustee Williams]
President Clark: It is not a pleasant circumstance that brings me to this podium this evening--to report that the entire Irvine Valley College faculty has, by a vote of 63 to 24, declared "no confidence" in this Board of Trustees because of quote "repeated actions taken which indicate its unwillingness to participate in the spirit and intent of shared governance" end quote. Contrary to claims made by Ms. Miller-White, for those of you with political understanding, this represents a disapproval rating of 72.5 percent of the faculty. The referendum was introduced from the floor of the Representative Council and had language crafted by all members present. It was submitted by a vote of 18 to 2 to 2 to a vote of our entire faculty in an open and fair election monitored by our elections committee. The Academic Senate--and, at IVC, that is the entire faculty--has spoken and when the Academic Senate speaks it is prudent for this district to listen. A vote of no confidence is understood to be a most grave action not undertaken lightly. The last vote of no confidence taken by IVC faculty was registered against former President Ed Hart in the early 1980s. It is to be considered by all an overwhelming signal to the college, to the district, and to the community we serve that severe problems persist and cry for remedy. The Academic Senate is the duly constituted voice of the faculty, recognized as such by law, by Title V, by your own board policies. As the IVC Academic [Senate] President, I am the individual designed to speak on behalf of the faculty as a whole. I carry to the various meetings I attend the visions, the concerns, as expressed by the majority of the faculty through open, democratic processes. I have always attempted to be scrupulous, when I speak, to distinguish when I represent Senate actions, when I speak the sentiments of the faculty as a whole, and when I carry the voice of concern raised by some but not discussed as a whole. If I must be a cautious speaker, then I ask you as board members to be cautious listeners and to distinguish between decisions reached and delivered by the authentic voice of the faculty--the Academic Senates--and the whispered rumors or innuendoes of those who approach you outside the process. They do not speak for faculty as a whole. They cannot, and their appeals or their petitions must be weighed accordingly. The Academic Senate by law is more than just an advisor body. Your failure to understand that principle and our partnership reflects the very depth of your lack of understanding about AB 1725. We have brought our entreaties before this body as requests for meetings and orientations. We have been stifled in our attempts to bring such requests before you as a docket item. Our requests to you for legal remedies have also gone unanswered, and we tire of asking. The plebiscite just taken at our college is no longer request; it is a public demand that you work with us to rectify the ills that plague this district and to restore both the obligations and responsibilities delegated to us by law and your own adopted board policies 2100.1.
Trustee Williams: The Brown Act allows a brief interaction with a public speaker: President Clark, did you state to any employee of this district that, if you didn't get those things that you wanted, that you would shut down IVC?
Clark: Never.
Williams: OK, thank you.
[Later in the meeting, trustees Lorch and Frogue repeat the charge against Kate. Evidently, the story that Kate had said they she “would shut down IVC” was reported to trustees by Raghu. Judging by the unreliability of similar charges offered by Mathur over the years, I think Kate’s reputation is safe.]
…..
TRUSTEE FROGUE’S REPORT:
My report will be brief. I did provide (a bit [indecipherable] report) here about certain things that have been going on here. I did want to announce that I did this afternoon talk to the Governor's Office and I did ask him to call a conference of the Presidents of the Community College Districts of California to review the problems with AB1725, the relations with the Academic Senates. I think it's reached a --we've reached a point here where the Academic Senates might not have confidence in us, and frankly I don't think we have much confidence in them, and it's something, it's a problem I think we should perhaps reach some agreement on. So I've put in a call and I will be following it up with a letter.
We have the same type of problem here that we've had over the last three years here. And we've seen it in this last week here, where lies get printed in the newspapers...It's called "blow back." It's the oldest game in the book. You plant something in the newspaper that's false--I've suffered this type of stuff personally from people in this very room: repeating lies. The lies, just by getting printed get--"Well, it was printed; it therefore must be the truth." We see the same type of thing here with the fact that the CCLC was going to investigate. Never happened, never happened. They spin this stuff--people (can be?) inventive, conscientious, and creative liars and the truth seems to be whatever lies they think they can get away with. And it's time that maybe a little bit of this stuff stops.
. . .
We were at the conference in Washington, D.C. We had part of the first day there off and I visited the Arlington National Cemetery and the eternal flame...Walked down a little bit. Eighteen inch cross: the grave of Robert Francis Kennedy. There was a young family with a child there; the little child asked, "Who was Robert Kennedy?" And the wife turns to the husband, "Who was Robert Kennedy?" They didn't even know. And to those of us who lived through that, it's relatively shocking.
I turned, however, and there's an inscription on the wall that left me transfixed. And it said that every time a person stands up, and stands up to, that which is wrong, they start a small ripple, and if enough people stand up against what is wrong, they can truly cause a wave to form that will change the world. It was the most beautiful thing that I've ever seen. Very inspiring and something that we can all learn from and profit from.
[Later in the meeting:]
Trustee Frogue speaks of "rigged elections"
Trustee Frogue: Thank you Miss Miller-White...As far as kettles and pots, here, I think it's—
Miller-White: Black is a good color.
Trustee Frogue: (indecipherable)...and it's beautiful, too, but, uh, as far as the reputations of those governance units in our District, maybe it's, it's not the best color--we should be striving for openness.
(Miller-White: "[indecipherable] is fine.")
Frogue: ...I think it has been fine. I have been, uh, you know, a member of CTA for thirty years and even had an Academic Senate at the school that I teach and I follow the...[indecipherable]. I do believe under the (virtue?) of this Board that the Academic Senate meets.
I've seen rigged elections. (Indecipherable) votes of no confidence--I've seen rigged elections in one of the colleges. I've seen it twice, personally, personally--with rigged elections. And so when, uh, people talk about--you know, uh--votes of this or votes of that, I just think you have to take it with a grain of salt. Moving along...(Roy Bauer begins to speak over Trustee Frogue: "Are you saying that...") The California...School Employee Association...
Roy Bauer: [Again:] Excuse me. Are you saying that the referendum was rigged?
Trustee Frogue: No.
(?): Then what are you saying?
Trustee Frogue: I'm saying that there've been rigged elections in the past.
(?:) By whom?
Trustee Frogue: The Academic Senate of Irvine Valley College [mixed voices. Frogue responds to something:] I just said it. There have been rigged elections...
Bauer: Was it [i.e., the vote of no confidence] rigged or not?
Trustee Frogue: Rigged elections at Irvine College in the past...
(?:)By whom?
Trustee Frogue: The Irvine Valley College Academic Senate.
Jan Wyma: We've been called liars here tonight; we may as well get it out in the open.
Bauer: Who is the liar and what's the lie?
Wyma: (We're having?) a public meeting and you call our faculty liars.
Trustee Frogue: I said there have been rigged elections at Irvine Valley College. I've seen them. Twice. You want me to name names? [Indecipherable mixed voices.] The evidence is in the record.
(?): It exonerated the Senate.
Trustee Frogue: Pardon me?
(?): The record exonerated the Senate.
Trustee Frogue: The record did not exonerate the Senate.
(?): I'd like (you?) to name names.
Trustee Frogue: The record...We can, if you'd like [mixed voices, indecipherable; reference is made by someone to Frogue's speaking of liars.] No, I didn't call anybody "liars." I said there were rigged elections.
Bauer: You, sir, are a coward.
Trustee Frogue: No, I'm not…I'm saying that there were rigged elections--for the fourth time.
Bauer: Who's a liar? [Mixed voices, indecipherable; general chaos.]
Trustee Fortune: Point of order. This sounds like an Irvine Valley College faculty meeting--(in other words, I would wish you'd move [us] along?).
Trustee Frogue: Yes, Yes. I understand.
Please note the blatant ad hominem employed by Trustee John Williams against IVC Academic Senate President Kate Clark.]
May 19, 1997
Meeting of the SOCCCD Board of Trustees
[IVC Academic Senate President Kate Clark's statement during the public comments portion of the meeting--and her subsequent brief exchange with Trustee Williams]
President Clark: It is not a pleasant circumstance that brings me to this podium this evening--to report that the entire Irvine Valley College faculty has, by a vote of 63 to 24, declared "no confidence" in this Board of Trustees because of quote "repeated actions taken which indicate its unwillingness to participate in the spirit and intent of shared governance" end quote. Contrary to claims made by Ms. Miller-White, for those of you with political understanding, this represents a disapproval rating of 72.5 percent of the faculty. The referendum was introduced from the floor of the Representative Council and had language crafted by all members present. It was submitted by a vote of 18 to 2 to 2 to a vote of our entire faculty in an open and fair election monitored by our elections committee. The Academic Senate--and, at IVC, that is the entire faculty--has spoken and when the Academic Senate speaks it is prudent for this district to listen. A vote of no confidence is understood to be a most grave action not undertaken lightly. The last vote of no confidence taken by IVC faculty was registered against former President Ed Hart in the early 1980s. It is to be considered by all an overwhelming signal to the college, to the district, and to the community we serve that severe problems persist and cry for remedy. The Academic Senate is the duly constituted voice of the faculty, recognized as such by law, by Title V, by your own board policies. As the IVC Academic [Senate] President, I am the individual designed to speak on behalf of the faculty as a whole. I carry to the various meetings I attend the visions, the concerns, as expressed by the majority of the faculty through open, democratic processes. I have always attempted to be scrupulous, when I speak, to distinguish when I represent Senate actions, when I speak the sentiments of the faculty as a whole, and when I carry the voice of concern raised by some but not discussed as a whole. If I must be a cautious speaker, then I ask you as board members to be cautious listeners and to distinguish between decisions reached and delivered by the authentic voice of the faculty--the Academic Senates--and the whispered rumors or innuendoes of those who approach you outside the process. They do not speak for faculty as a whole. They cannot, and their appeals or their petitions must be weighed accordingly. The Academic Senate by law is more than just an advisor body. Your failure to understand that principle and our partnership reflects the very depth of your lack of understanding about AB 1725. We have brought our entreaties before this body as requests for meetings and orientations. We have been stifled in our attempts to bring such requests before you as a docket item. Our requests to you for legal remedies have also gone unanswered, and we tire of asking. The plebiscite just taken at our college is no longer request; it is a public demand that you work with us to rectify the ills that plague this district and to restore both the obligations and responsibilities delegated to us by law and your own adopted board policies 2100.1.Trustee Williams: The Brown Act allows a brief interaction with a public speaker: President Clark, did you state to any employee of this district that, if you didn't get those things that you wanted, that you would shut down IVC?
Williams: OK, thank you.
[Later in the meeting, trustees Lorch and Frogue repeat the charge against Kate. Evidently, the story that Kate had said they she “would shut down IVC” was reported to trustees by Raghu. Judging by the unreliability of similar charges offered by Mathur over the years, I think Kate’s reputation is safe.]
…..
TRUSTEE FROGUE’S REPORT:
My report will be brief. I did provide (a bit [indecipherable] report) here about certain things that have been going on here. I did want to announce that I did this afternoon talk to the Governor's Office and I did ask him to call a conference of the Presidents of the Community College Districts of California to review the problems with AB1725, the relations with the Academic Senates. I think it's reached a --we've reached a point here where the Academic Senates might not have confidence in us, and frankly I don't think we have much confidence in them, and it's something, it's a problem I think we should perhaps reach some agreement on. So I've put in a call and I will be following it up with a letter.
We have the same type of problem here that we've had over the last three years here. And we've seen it in this last week here, where lies get printed in the newspapers...It's called "blow back." It's the oldest game in the book. You plant something in the newspaper that's false--I've suffered this type of stuff personally from people in this very room: repeating lies. The lies, just by getting printed get--"Well, it was printed; it therefore must be the truth." We see the same type of thing here with the fact that the CCLC was going to investigate. Never happened, never happened. They spin this stuff--people (can be?) inventive, conscientious, and creative liars and the truth seems to be whatever lies they think they can get away with. And it's time that maybe a little bit of this stuff stops.
. . .
We were at the conference in Washington, D.C. We had part of the first day there off and I visited the Arlington National Cemetery and the eternal flame...Walked down a little bit. Eighteen inch cross: the grave of Robert Francis Kennedy. There was a young family with a child there; the little child asked, "Who was Robert Kennedy?" And the wife turns to the husband, "Who was Robert Kennedy?" They didn't even know. And to those of us who lived through that, it's relatively shocking.
I turned, however, and there's an inscription on the wall that left me transfixed. And it said that every time a person stands up, and stands up to, that which is wrong, they start a small ripple, and if enough people stand up against what is wrong, they can truly cause a wave to form that will change the world. It was the most beautiful thing that I've ever seen. Very inspiring and something that we can all learn from and profit from.
[Later in the meeting:]
Trustee Frogue speaks of "rigged elections"
Trustee Frogue: Thank you Miss Miller-White...As far as kettles and pots, here, I think it's—
Miller-White: Black is a good color.
Trustee Frogue: (indecipherable)...and it's beautiful, too, but, uh, as far as the reputations of those governance units in our District, maybe it's, it's not the best color--we should be striving for openness.
(Miller-White: "[indecipherable] is fine.")
Frogue: ...I think it has been fine. I have been, uh, you know, a member of CTA for thirty years and even had an Academic Senate at the school that I teach and I follow the...[indecipherable]. I do believe under the (virtue?) of this Board that the Academic Senate meets.
I've seen rigged elections. (Indecipherable) votes of no confidence--I've seen rigged elections in one of the colleges. I've seen it twice, personally, personally--with rigged elections. And so when, uh, people talk about--you know, uh--votes of this or votes of that, I just think you have to take it with a grain of salt. Moving along...(Roy Bauer begins to speak over Trustee Frogue: "Are you saying that...") The California...School Employee Association...
Roy Bauer: [Again:] Excuse me. Are you saying that the referendum was rigged?
Trustee Frogue: No.
(?): Then what are you saying?
Trustee Frogue: I'm saying that there've been rigged elections in the past.
(?:) By whom?
Trustee Frogue: The Academic Senate of Irvine Valley College [mixed voices. Frogue responds to something:] I just said it. There have been rigged elections...
Bauer: Was it [i.e., the vote of no confidence] rigged or not?
Trustee Frogue: Rigged elections at Irvine College in the past...
(?:)By whom?
Trustee Frogue: The Irvine Valley College Academic Senate.
Jan Wyma: We've been called liars here tonight; we may as well get it out in the open.
Bauer: Who is the liar and what's the lie?
Wyma: (We're having?) a public meeting and you call our faculty liars.
Trustee Frogue: I said there have been rigged elections at Irvine Valley College. I've seen them. Twice. You want me to name names? [Indecipherable mixed voices.] The evidence is in the record.
(?): It exonerated the Senate.
Trustee Frogue: Pardon me?
(?): The record exonerated the Senate.
Trustee Frogue: The record did not exonerate the Senate.
(?): I'd like (you?) to name names.
Trustee Frogue: The record...We can, if you'd like [mixed voices, indecipherable; reference is made by someone to Frogue's speaking of liars.] No, I didn't call anybody "liars." I said there were rigged elections.
Bauer: You, sir, are a coward.
Trustee Frogue: No, I'm not…I'm saying that there were rigged elections--for the fourth time.
Bauer: Who's a liar? [Mixed voices, indecipherable; general chaos.]
Trustee Fortune: Point of order. This sounds like an Irvine Valley College faculty meeting--(in other words, I would wish you'd move [us] along?).
Trustee Frogue: Yes, Yes. I understand.
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