Monday, December 13, 2010

CSEA leadership responds, sort of

December 13: 

mea culpa
an acknowledgment of one's fault or error : [as exclam. ] “Well, whose fault was that?” “Mea culpa!” Frank said.

     One union (CSEA chapter 586) member, who shall remain nameless, has twice left rebuttals to our recent posts re Thursday’s election, but, both times, he/she then deleted them—evidently.
     I don’t get it. It's not as if these rebuttals were lousy. They make some good points!
     The first rebuttal was posted late Saturday night (in response to The CSEA election brouhaha). The second one was posted two hours ago (in response to yesterday’s More on the CSEA election controversy: “silly season”?).
     (Comments are automatically sent to my home email account (and the Reb’s), and neither of us deleted them. That leaves only the author—Member Z.)

     Well, we want to be fair and let union leadership respond to our and others’ criticisms. So, for what it’s worth, here are member Z's points—and my responses.

Saturday’s "rebuttal":

“NOBODY is being disenfranchised. Maybe they are being inconvenienced, but there is a big difference between the two.”

(My response: people can make their own judgments about that. Some CSEA members work from 4:30 p.m. to 1:00 a.m. (swing shift). The election is scheduled for 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon, which is five hours after the shift. So it would be like a 9-5 worker being told that they can vote, but the polls are only open from 10:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m.)

“The constitution … states that the election must be held on the day of the December meeting, and polls must close before the meeting begins.”

(My response: (1) This element of the constitution does preclude some accommodations that have been suggested, but not the accommodation of opening the polls from midnight to 1:00 a.m. on Thursday. (2) Again, given that some classified workers work non-regular hours, it is hard to see the logic of the drafters [of the recent revision] in opting to include the “same day” rule.)

“The voting tellers do not get release time, and we have a limited number of people who are willing to serve as tellers.”

(My response: one of the suggested accommodations involves adding only one hour [from midnight to 1:00 a.m.] to the polling schedule.)

“[T]he change in voting that was accomplished this year [namely, allowing voting at both college campuses and not just at the location of the meeting] did not come about as a result of requests from the membership, but from the E Board itself.”

(My response: irrelevant. And again: that the rules were once worse than now does not justify their present failings, right?)

“Maybe you can say we were short-sighted, but the fact is that no one was complaining about the way voting was conducted in the past.”

(My response: first, one of the requested accommodations—adding the midnight-to-1 hour to the polling schedule—is entirely consistent with the existing constitution. Second, evidently, the E Board did not see a problem writing the constitution and setting the election in a manner that de facto disenfranchises some membership. “Shortsighted” is one word for it, I guess. Oblivious? Indifferent?)

“If the night shift staff felt they were ‘disenfranchised’ in past elections, they did not bring it to our attention. If they had, we could have overhauled the whole system.”

(My response: no doubt these members should have brought the matter to leadership's attention. But it is hardly surprising if these workers—a rather marginalized group, it seems to me—were simply unaware that a change in the rules could be made for the asking.)

A tree on the hill across from my place, this morning. Click on it!
Today’s "rebuttal":

“...'silly season' is an expression used to describe the antics that happen during elections. You have a right to misconstrue [the] meaning if you wish.”

(My response: I don’t think I did misconstrue the author's meaning. The phrase “silly season” came up in this post by a union officer:
Whispers. Gossip. Innuendo.
In a CSEA election?
Really?
Read below for a reality check. Fortunately, silly season will end Election Day, Dec. 16.
Plainly, the writer implied that those engaging in “whispers,” “gossip,” and “innuendo” are being silly, which ain't good, whatever it might mean. And there can be little doubt what that writer means by “gossip,” etc., for, in a post a few days earlier, she referred to three “myths,” including concerns from classified employees who felt disenfranchised by the Dec. 16 polling schedule.)

“[W]e are not opposed to further changing election rules. However, it is too late for this year – even the moving of the chapter meeting time, because of notice rules.”

(My response: glad to hear that the leadership do not oppose changing the rules! Perhaps it is too late to change the meeting time, but I don’t see how all suggested accommodations entail changing the meeting time. Further, even if nothing can be done to accommodate these members, I cannot understand why the leadership of this union is not apologetic about its actions—actions that leave some members disenfranchised. Frankly, I am mystified by this. Mistakes? —We all make 'em. But then you say, "My bad." No?)

“…I do know that our constitution is based on a template provided by state CSEA. (See http://members.csea.com/MemberHome/Portals/0/csea_pdf/pub_119.pdf) Judging from the template, it is standard practice for CSEA chapters to allow voting only at the December meeting each year. [Most] likely this is because most CSEA chapters are k-12 and comprise many campuses. That is most likely the reason it has been done that way all this time, even though it doesn't really make sense.”

(My response: informative. And I agree. It doesn’t really make sense. Perhaps some of the blame here should be directed at CSEA. Good point.)

“There is nothing nefarious going on here. We are not professional board members, we are classified staff members fitting in our CSEA obligations during lunch and after work and on weekends. (We do not have the luxury of having flexible schedules like faculty!)"

(My response: speaking for myself, I have not assumed that anything nefarious (i.e., wicked or criminal) is going on here. Nefarious is too strong a word. Still, I would challenge the union leadership to ask themselves whether they have erred in bringing about a situation in which some members are virtually disenfranchised. I think it is clear that they have. So do the right thing, even if all that it can be, for now, is a statement of commitment to do better!)

     ONE MORE POINT: one reason I have pursued this matter is that I can think of few mistakes (by a union's leadership) more serious than disenfranchising some of its members, especially its most marginalized members. —And doing it for a long time, oblivious.—And then refusing to take the matter seriously when the disenfranchised members complain!
     I just can't understand why these people didn't simply declare "mea culpa," then accommodate these few members and then resolve publicly to make the obvious changes to the constitution.
     (Hint: you can stil do all that.)

37 comments:

Anonymous said...

Originally the voting time was scheduled between 8am-noon, folks did ask for the hours to be extended for the night crew and the e-board changed it to begin and hour earlier in the morning. what a joke, the board didnt ask the members in attendance for any input they changed it on their own. Another instance where the current csea board made up their own rules with out the members make the decision.
Some folks just will let their egos in the way instead of making things right.

Anonymous said...

So much of it doesn't make sense especially that last point about the lack of flexible schedules like faculty - well DAMN, that's the swing shift's whole point about the conflict with the voting period.

And what is a "professional board member" anyway? All people are asking for is accountability and instead they get this big "don't F- with us" attitude.

Adn what is this you have to pay an extra fee to vote?

Anonymous said...

It's pretty evident that Shanna has little regard for the chapter members and evidently Delores Irwin also drank the "cool aid" but I have to ask....where is the rest of the EBoard we elected? No backbone, no spine, no representation for those who elected you?

Roll Call:
Gee Dickson - Where are you?
Kathy Nunez - Where are you?
Lisa Austin - Where are you?
Daune Main - Where are you?
Polly Sundeen - Where are you?

Out to lunch....all together and probably on the chapter tab.

Anonymous said...

Too preoccupied with their junkets and/or using our dues money to throw parties and award ceremonies for themselves. Never mind fairly representing us members! For the last 6 years, it has been clearly evident management’s interests, not our interests, have been more important to them. Just take a look at our contract; the “management rights” section. WTF?!?!?! In our contract?!?!

Anonymous said...

Here’s another example:

Mid contract, Blue Shield of CA HMO unilaterally changed their co-pay for ER from $25 to $100. I then notified our E-Board “benefits specialist,” who then went to the dist. with it. On 7/13/10 the members received a notice from the E-Board "benefits specialist” that the dist. has agreed to reimburse us $75 for ER use. Sounds fair so far huh?

After receiving my new insurance cards at the end of Sept. 2010, I noticed the co-pay for ER was still set @ $100 (not $25). In a proactive effort of trying to stay on top of this issue, on 9/28/10 I emailed our E-Board “benefits specialist” about this and received NO RESPONSE.

Regretfully my wife and I had to use the ER twice last month. When I contacted Dist. risk mgt. about getting reimbursed, they told me there’s no longer any reimbursements for this because of an MOU they struck with CSEA. Evidently the MOU terminates the ER reimbursements after 9/30/10. I explained to Dist. risk mgt. that I’ve never seen such an MOU; they don’t seem to care, and rightly so for it was the sole responsibility of our E-Board “benefits specialist” to notify the membership.

I could be wrong about this; perhaps there was a notice that I missed? I’ve thoroughly checked my email and haven’t found anything. I’ve challenged both Dist. risk mgt. and our E-Board “benefits specialist” to please prove me wrong, please show me a copy of the time stamped MOU that was supposedly emailed out to the membership. So far, no response…, probably because there was no constructive notice.

Evidently CSEA and the Dist. struck a secret deal. Is that the case here? Because CSEA has dropped the ball again, this time it’s going to cost me $150! And we’re forced to pay dues for this kind of representation?!?!?!

Anonymous said...

wow, i am so sorry to hear what 7:17pm dec 14 had to say that really sucks. hopefully there will be new folks voted in that will actually communicate with the Classified Employees and no behind door deals.

Anonymous said...

7:17 Thanks for bringing that to our attention our union leaders don't have it together unless its for themselves it's time for them to go.

Anonymous said...

HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE. THE UNION WILL BE THE LEAST LIKED PEOPLE ON CAMPUS AND THEY MAY SAY WHO CARES BUT THEY NEED TO CARE. IF SHANNA CAN CHANGE IT THEN SHE SHOULD HER RECORD IS NOT THE BEST. THEY SHOULD GET IN A LITTLE POW WOW AND SAY YES THEY CAN VOTE AND THEN ITS DONE AND THEN MAYBE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF THIS SAVING FACE. I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH FEAR OF ONE GROUP. SORRY DUES ARE PAYED AND THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE. LISTEN PLS THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT GT ALONG AT THAT SCHOOL AND SUPPORT EACH OTHER AND WILL TAKE SIDES AND YOU DON'T WANT TO BE ON THE WRONG SIDE. ITS NOT A THREAT BUT A REALITY...OH AND THE GOSSIP BEING SPREAD ABOUT PEOPLE WE DON'T TAKE KINDLY TO THAT CSEA. CSEA YOU KNOW THERE IS A VOICE OUT THERE THE QUESTION IS...IS IT FOR YOU.WE NEED CHANGE AND THEN YOU WILL SEE THE VOICES COMING OUT TO SUPPORT CSEA. SO WHATS BETTER TO KEEP THE SAME PEOPLE AND HAVE NO SUPPORT OR CHANGE AND HAVE SUPPORT AND A STRONG UNION AGAIN. WHAT DO YOU WANT..SOMETIMES ITS GOOD TO LEAVE SO THAT WHAT YOU SAY U BELIEVE IN CAN BE STRONG AGAIN.

Anonymous said...

Another concern calls into question how we’ve been represented at the state level. As you know, perception is everything. In our October 2010 Peaks & Valleys reporting the outcome of the rally for education at CSEA's annual conference (the big junket) in August, One of our delegates can be seen sporting beard beads, a hippy bandanna and a tough guy expression on his face:
http://www.csea.com/content/chapterpubs/C/586/PeaksOct2010pdf.pdf

Now, I’ve seen this guy around our campus and I know he normally doesn’t conduct himself this way, but honestly, is his “angry-unionist-thug look” the kind of perception we want to create for our chapter? You be the judge.

Anonymous said...

I’ve heard about several members having to hire their own attorneys, and pay big $ out of their own pockets because of this E-Board’s failure to represent them. If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention! Definitely time for a CHANGE in leadership!

Anonymous said...

1:56 pm, 12/15 - “but honestly, is his “angry-unionist-thug look” the kind of perception we want to create for our chapter?”

Not just for our chapter… how about all CA public employees in general?

In the present anti-public employee climate we live in, this is terrible!

Anonymous said...

I heard about an incident where a manager placed an illegal live video surveillance camera in the workplace. When chapter leadership (now retired) was notified, she did nothing about it! Actually she did do something; she informed the manager about a certain “problem employee” who brought it to her attention. The next day the manager retaliated against the employee by reprimanding him on unrelated trumped-up, bogus charges. I heard Shanna was there and did nothing to defend the employee, instead she later yelled at him, “We don’t represent you anymore!”

This is what happens when management succeeds in co-opting our leadership.

Roy Bauer said...

Beard beads? Thug look? C'mon. Let's stick to real issues.

Anonymous said...

BvT,
As far as I’m concerned it is a real issue, my friend. Maybe you don’t understand because you work in the public sector, and you can appear any way you damn well please, but the reality is people are discriminated against based on their appearance. This was not beyond his control either; the guy deliberately chose to be seen like this. That = bad PR for CSEA and all CA public employees, IMHO.

Roy Bauer said...

Nice ad hominem.
The fellow of which you speak is participating in a protest march. That's pretty much a mobile carnival, isn't it? Yep. Imagine him standing there wearing a suit and tie! That would be dark and menacing, like Nazi folk dancing or synchronized brief case marching. Yikes!
Listen, we're talking about serious issues here: disenfranchisement of some members of a union (and the like). Leave the bearded bead guy alone. (Besides, I like his beads, and he seems more like a puppy than a thug; Doncha wanna give him some yarn or hand 'im a Bud?)

Anonymous said...

FYI: ALL CSEA MEMBERS - IMPORTANT:
If you saw the email & flyer we all received today from Delores Irwin, you’ll see that there were NO changes made to the polling schedule. NO accommodations were made for swing-shift and graveyard members! You remain disenfranchised! They do not care about your concerns! Regardless, please make sure you come in and vote! Even if it’s a major inconvenience, because we need to vote these people out ASAP or nothing will change!

Voting schedule: 6:00 am – 12:00 Noon ant both campuses.

Location: Where the old switchboard used to be in bldg. A100

Anonymous said...

BvT,

“Nice ad hominem?” Dude, did you down a half gallon of Prestone or something? I didn’t see any name-calling there, just someone’s good observations. If you’re representing someone/something, appearance is everything.

Roy Bauer said...

Never argue logic with someone who actually knows something about it. The "ad hominem" (to the person) fallacy is committed when one refers to a fact about the opponent. With few exceptions, facts about an opponent are utterly irrelevant to the correctness of his position. You'll recall that you wrote, "Maybe you don’t understand because you work in the public sector...." That I'm in the public sector is utterly irrelevant to whether my view (that the appearance of Bearded Guy at a protest is of little import) is a reasonable one. That's Logic 101, dude. Ain't education fun?

Anonymous said...

And BTW BvT,

I saw your cute little poll about the bearded one on your front page.
Interesting how it only tallies your choice, the “sensitive pastel-colored Teddybear” and not the other one. You think that’s fair? I get the feeling you’re pretty good friends with this guy…

Roy Bauer said...

This is fun! Aincha gonna respond?
I know! Look up the phrase "ad hominem" in a dictionary and tell me that the dictionary says you're right and I'm wrong!
But seriously dude, there are serious issues afoot, and the fact that a guy shows up at a protest march looking protesty ain't one of 'em.

Roy Bauer said...

6:38: it only tallies "my" choice? You're paranoic. These polls aren't fixed at all. But neither are they serious, mostly. It's all in good fun. --Did you think it was serious?
I don't even know who the bearded/beaded guy is. Don't care.
I'm tryin' to run a blog here, and sometimes you've gotta help people get back on track. I try to do that with some humor, is all. Sheesh.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Roy Bauer said...

6:48, I'm gonna rule your comment out of bounds. Can't we stick with the issues? Do we really need to get all personal (in this case, about bearded guy)? I mean, you may be right, but could we please focus on this "disenfranchisement" issue and the like?

Anonymous said...

Yes, let's have no trash talk.

Anonymous said...

I read the link that was posted above
http://www.csea.com/content/chapterpubs/C/586/PeaksOct2010pdf.pdf
Interesting paragraph that states: "hours for balloting are determined by the governing board,"
nuff said. Ever seen the old deMille film of the Ten Commandments and the Pharoh says... "So it shall be said, so it shall be written". The current board is not looking out for everyone. We need new blood.

Anonymous said...

I been to many of these rallies through the years - it's hot, you walk around, people wear sunglasses and hats and bandannas, t-shirts, etc. - and you know, none of that says "union thug" to me. Really. Come on.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Roy Bauer said...

Look, it's like this. If you're gonna call a guy a "rat," then at least identify yourself. I'm not inclined to let somebody make such claims anonymously.

Anonymous said...

vonTravern,

Why yoo keep tak’n posts away? Da man was just say’n how the eboard really is. Rats are peeps who inform on others. They cause devision amung members when day should be uniting dem. Day have rats dat rat out other members to managers. Sum of the so called leaders are rats demselfs. I no of severel cases to. Wat day do defys wat a union is spos to be do’n. Union meens to unite. Deez peeps made work envoirment dat is devided. Dat’s all he was tri’n to say.

Anonymous said...

Roy,

It’s interesting how you remove posts where union members are trying to express how other members have ratted on them, especially as it pertains to a union where members and their leadership are supposed to be “united.” I think that very relevant. Here, the word “rat” was used in the context of someone informing on someone in an environment where the leadership has participated in, encouraged and condoned this kind of behavior.

I find this interesting because you Roy, and your cronies have freely used the word “rat” and “rat bastard” in the context of attacking your opponents. If you were to go back and remove all those occurrences of that context, half the content of your entire blog would be gone. So who’s the pot calling the kettle black? Hypocrisy! Shame!

Anonymous said...

If you are unhappy with CSEA and the e-board, opt out. It is better to spend the money towards charity than continue the e-board's behaviour.

Roy Bauer said...

11:55, I deleted exactly two comments (clearly marked above), and I explained each deletion. The commenter in question accused an employee of "ratting out" his colleagues. As I said previously, for all that I know, the accusation is true; I did not dispute it. But, again, if you're going to identify someone and then call him a "rat," it is unseemly to do so hiding behind anonymity, as the commenter did. GET IT? It's not rocket science.
Your charge of hypocrisy is absurd. Though I do not recall ever accusing anyone of "ratting" anyone out, I have certainly accused people of things over the years: of lying, scheming, cheating, breaking the law, etc. (and I have supported my claims). But I never did so anonymously. Especially after my well-known adventures in Federal Court, the identity of the chief writer and editor of this blog (and the newsletter that preceded it) has long been well known. You might click on "B. Von Traven" at the top of this blog: it takes you to my profile, which leaves no doubt that Traven=Bauer--though regular readers will know that I have never made any effort to disguise my identity over the years.
Some of you commenters really do need to get a fucking clue. Good Lord.

Anonymous said...

Well-said, BvT=Roy. There's that passive-aggressive "Roy ...." commentator again. (S)he really bothers the hell out of me with that stuff, plus always being off-base in half a dozen other ways.

MAH

Anonymous said...

Great roy, just drop the F bomb!

Anonymous said...

3:18,

We can’t opt-out. The dues are involuntarily confiscated from our pay checks, thanks to a sweetheart deal the union cut with Gray Davis. In this closed shop, every member is forced to pay even if they don’t support how their dues are being used politically, i.e. union endorsed candidates for city, county & state, politicians as well as new state legislation. The annual $300 they take from me goes to support candidates and laws I would never vote for.

Anonymous said...

OK. SO YOU WON THIS ONE SHANNA GOOD FOR YOU. NEXT YEAR POLLY WILL BE OUT AND THE FOLLOWING YEAR IF YOU GUYS DONT GET IT RIGHT THEN SOMEBODY ELSE WILL BE OUT AND TAKE YOUR SPOT AND ALL YOU CAN SAY IS(WHO LET THE DOGS OUT)

Anonymous said...

3:18pm on December 16th indicated we could "opt out"...how can we do that? Could you explain further...

Roy's obituary in LA Times and Register: "we were lucky to have you while we did"

  This ran in the Sunday December 24, 2023 edition of the Los Angeles Times and the Orange County Register : July 14, 1955 - November 20, 2...