Still, though it is hard to make one’s lips say it, it is indeed possible that the usual suspects are in this instance largely innocent and that Mr. Minkler is not the lout he has been described as being.
We at DtB are in the habit of reporting stunning fubars and then inviting and permitting alternative perspectives and criticisms of our reportage. And so, when, as usual, we went out of our way to invite perspectives running contrary to the story we were telling (we did that last week*), we naturally supposed that those sharing that perspective would do so. And when they did not (yes, we received the usual unhelpful charges that we were being unfair; but where exactly the unfairness lay was, as usual, unspecified), we naturally, though perhaps erroneously, concluded that there simply are none who share the contrary perspective. And this, of course, can seem to be evidence that, for once, there is a controversy for which there is only one side worth stating, and we have stated it.
But it is important to remember that Irvine Valley College is an odd place, for it is populated, to an unusual degree, by trembling employees who live in mute silence about all things wrong, ridiculous, and regrettable. This (often) unseemly Irvinean diffidence and abject ridiculosity is usually attributed to fear: of retaliation from superiors (Craig, et al.), of being perceived as “uncooperative” and “uncivil.”
It is also attributable, I suppose, to sheer unmitigated Republicanism, with which far too many citizens are afflicted in these parts.
* * *
To my amazement, recently, I have at long last encountered the other voices, though I generally had to go out of my way to find them.One source, a reliable person who is admirably tapped into the goings on of this campus, suggested to me that, in their experience, Mr. Minkler has never exhibited the boorish and disturbing behaviors that have recently been attributed to him.
This report, in itself, does not go far, but my source went further. According to the source, it is indeed true that formal complaints have been made against the new counselor, and at least one of them has been investigated. In the case of the first complaint, however, the investigator found the accusations to be less than credible.
Again, that, in itself, if true, does not go far. But my source went on to explain that at least some of the complainers seem connected to each other, and that the prime or initial complainer seems to be in a glaring conflict of interest (for reasons I feel uncomfortable sharing). That is, among some of these complainers, one can identify a motive to find (or exaggerate) Minklerean misconduct beyond the existence of actual Minklerean misconduct.
I have heard other reports, too—of Mr. Minkler’s seeming outstanding reasonableness in at least some settings about subjects about which such reasonableness might be unexpected.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not reversing what we thus far have reported. It seems clear at this point that the development of the Veterans Service Center has proceeded less than optimally. Some administrators appear to have handled a bad situation badly.But it is beginning to appear that, in this case, as in so many others, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle between two seemingly incompatible accounts coming from two mutually-hostile parties.
I wonder whether, in this instance, DtB has heard only “one side” of a genuine two-sided controversy.
Please let us know what you think. And do try to be helpful and not simply to vent or rage or spew.
*Last week, I wrote: "I have said this many times before and I will say it again: those who wish to provide an opposing view should simply provide it. If an alleged fact is not a fact, they should simply say that and make their case. Further, they can contact me—I make no secret who I am or where I can be found—and I'd be happy to listen to you and even to provide you an opportunity for an written response. I have often done that over the years."
The “Fubar” series:
• The Veterans Center FUBAR, Part 1 — or "Why do the Veterans hate the veterans' counselor?"*
• The Veterans Center FUBAR, part 2: protection!
• The Veterans Center FUBAR, part 3: a room of one’s own
• The Veterans Center fubar, part 4: another side?
• The Veterans Center fubar, part 5: administration's dog and pony show
• The Veterans Center fubar, part 6: the "other side" re Mark Minkler
36 comments:
It's very possible that there are three sides and maybe even four or more. The problem - as others have said - is that there is no process for addressing concern in a constructive way at IVC. If staff feel like this, can you imagine what it is like for the students? I think everyone has their point but no one really cares. So the points get sharper.
As someone who knows a "complainer" in this situation, I feel badly that anyone is going through and downplaying what Minkler did. Pointing the finger at someone who has been treated inappropriately is unfair and base.
I bet the female work study students working front deskwould beg to differ the minkler is a saint. Let's not forget minkler is a vet and from my experiences veterans give other veterans all kinds of chances and never judge them. The fact that the entire veteran community hates this guy says a lot about his character and what kind of person his is.
I always appreciate the willingness of the blog to consider many views. Part of the problem here as many have suggested is that there is no place to really discuss issues. The admin shuts everything down. Who know what really happens? Don't blame the blog. They're just trying to get it out there.
Yes, we are trying to get this issue "out there." And nobody's downplaying what anyone did; nor is anyone suggesting that Minkler is a saint. The point is that we are receiving conflicting information about Minkler and the circumstances of the initial complaints about him. If people have useful information, they should provide it. Hopefully, we can get further information about the status of the alleged formal complaints. Also, we'd love to hear from anyone who can speak to Mr. Minkler's conduct (and the conduct of administrators and others in this matter) based on first hand experience. If he's a good guy, then people should provide the grounds for saying so.
Some RB backpedalage, I see.
You have nothing to say, I see. Spit it out or go away.
Admit it Roy, you were wrong. You jumped to wrong conclusions from bad info you got from people laking credibility. While it is big of you to concede, somewhat, what you're saying is that you're still going to err on the side of the complainers over Minkler... What the hell is that? Looks like classic RB to me. Since you're not directly in the loop, why not give your two cents after it runs its couse instead of just piling on the guy?
It's a complicated situation and from what I see the blog is doing a better job than the admin. at handling the complexities of it. They just disappear people and tell you not to ask questions.
Thanks for the input, oh brave, brave Anonymous.
No one is all bad, or all good, but obviously if you can't do the job you were hired to do - counsel vets - you don't deserve to keep that job. If you were hired to teach math and you sucked at it or had tons of student complaints and were removed from the classroom, you shouldn't be allowed to keep your job. Regardless of what the backstory is, if he can't counsel vets, he should be removed and they should find someone else.
Having had many interactions with our student veterans - they're a great group of men and women that bring academic excellence to IVC. Shame on anyone who tries to blame the victim and call them bad apples.
I don't see the point in this whole "we're just trying to get this issue out there" and "people dissappear and they don't tell us anything" mentality. Aren't personnel issues supposed to be confidential? If you had a personnel issue, would you like it if this blog did to you what they're doing to Minkler? Afministration doesn't have to tell us squat, and even if they did wouldn't they be breaking the law?
You don't see the point? Of course you do. Obviousy, this administration exploits "confidentiality" to cover up what it's up to and to prevent discussion. In the meantime, it could fill us in on the bigger picture, indicate its plans to make things better, but it never does that.
What we get is total noncommunication, which inspires lots of guessing and theorizing--and distrust. It's all top-down, and shut-up, and photo ops for Glenn.
The vet situation at IVC right now is pretty bad. How many on campus would know that if it weren't for DtB? The indications that Minkler is a problem with the vet population are pretty overwhelming. We would not have pursued this story were that not so.
You say that administration doesn't have to tell us squat. That's fine with you, is it? This is a college, not a military base. What's the matter with you?
It sounds like they need to buy themselves some new vets. Maybe that where the $50,000 will go.
For the record, I think the old vets were fine guys. I think there were problems as there are with everything. I think mistakes were made -and then I think the bigger mistakes were made in response. Typical IVC. Take a picture of that.
Get rid the Vets if they want to be just a bunch of complainers that can't appreciate the efforts and diligence of Mark Minkler.
Baiting, are we? What sort of person would say "get rid of the vets"? Just how low can you go? Keep going. I hope to call the Guiness people later.
Roy is wrong according to who? Linda and Minkler? Sure he's wrong according to them..However, all of the vets are happy Roy finally knows the truth about how much they hate Minkler. Linda and her pawns can lie all they want but at the end of the day not one single student veteran showed up for veterans day. The first time that has ever happened on campus..that speaks louder than the BS Linda and Mark are saying. Roy got it right the first time...he got it wrong the with his "2 cents" part..thats just because Linda had her people go out and do damage control.
hahahahaha diligence of Mark Minkler? Clearly you have never met the man or you are Mark and this is your weak attempt at trying to cover up the truth. Either way its pathetic and so is your comment.
Couple things to keep in mind.
1. Students are not allowed on hiring committees.
2. Project specialists are temporary employees and have no union.
3. Personnel issues are not for the public's consumption.
4. The administration screwed up by allowing unsupervised students in the veterans center during nonworking hours.
The vet center should be closed down. Start up a Women's Center.
An attempt at humor?
This is NOT a joke (as I think the earlier comment was one); I think IVC actually needs more centers like the vets center to address the very real needs of our students on campus. I don't know if we need a women's center (I'll let others weigh in on that) but I do think we need something like a multicultural center or something like that. For example, we have observant Muslim students on campus who do not have a place to pray. At other campuses the multicultural center provides this service. It would be nice to have places that meet the real needs of our students and have fewer bounce houses and costume parties. It would also be nice to have resources for evening students.
I asked if "close the vet center" was a joke, and you respond by saying "This is NOT a joke," and then refer to "the earlier comment," leaving unclear which comment you mean. You write just like my mother speaks. Ever see a Burns and Allen routine?
Say "goodnight," Gracie
Well, gee, than what is the STUDENT SUCCESS CENTER? What's the matter, not good enough?
Please write in complete sentences. What is it that you are trying to say? I am rapidly loosing patience with your illiterate blathering.
I think the previous commentator (12:52) was trying to point out that other student groups, other than vets, have needs too. And like other colleges, we might try to address them. the Student Success Center offers tutoring. Some students, like the vets, say, need more than that.
No serious person advocates shutting down the vet center. The issue is that its development has been bungled a bit, that it could be better than it is. Leadership has failed us.
As near as I can tell, only the (entirely negligible) 11:12 advocates shutting anything down.
And just who is arguing that we should not have centers to address various student needs? Of course we should. Naturally, we need to identify the greatest needs, etc. And we should approach such matters intelligently--an element sorely lacking given IVC's current leadership.
Was someone suggesting that we should not have a Student Success Center? Don't think so. 3:05's remark strikes me as bizarre or confused.
Frankly, some comments reveal a failure to read carefully. Others are written by people who fail to notice that there are two kinds of comment here: (1) plain comments (comments to the original post) and (2) responses to particular comments.In part, it's a format thing.
Some people need to pay attention to the format.
Also, many beginning writers (and even writers who should know better) tend to use pronouns (such as "this") such that they have no clear or obvious referent. One source of my consternation over 12:52 is this failure to be clear about "this." Is she referring to her own comment? The comment that she is in fact RESPONDING TO?
Sheesh.
What does veterans staying late in the veteran center have to do with the fact that Minkler is a terrible counselor? Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about because as a student veteran we could never stay late unless one staff member was there. Your "unsupervised" comment is invalid, go back to Linda and come up with a better lie about veterans.
I was serious in saying that the vet center should be closed down and open up a Women's Center.
a Women's Center is needed. a majority of IVC's student population are women around 57%
Vet population... 5%?
have a nice day.
Then how about a white student center? Whites are a minority, ya know...
Interesting how RB is only critical of spelling, grammar, pronouns, etc... when he disagrees with a commenter's position, otherwise as long as he agrees with you, your literary skills will never be critisized. That, friends, is a technique of gaming the debate.
You spelled criticized wrong. Couldn't help myself.
In this instance, I was explaining my response to a certain comment. Learn to read, dude. We've got classes for that.
This comment above demonstrates better then any other how immature and self-centered the minority of veteran complainers are. They think Veterans Day, and the Veterans Center is all about them. Just like they think hanging their pictures in the center means they own the place. Veterans Day is a celebration of all veterans: past, present, and future. Any veteran who would purposefully boycott a Veterans Day Event because their pride was hurt, is a disgrace to the uniform of the U.S. military and don't deserve respect for themselves or their self-centered childish tantrums.
Yes, veterans day is a celebration of all vets - past, present and future. But if some people feel like they're being used as window dressing and their real concerns, whether expressed well or poorly are being dismissed, I do not blame them for not showing up. Their were other events just as honorable to attend, events where they felt appreciated, respected and didn't have to salute people who were insulting them and ignoring them days before. To call those students disgraceful is poor judgment on the part of the poster and an example of what the vets have had to deal with,
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